SimSports
Why not login/register and join the conversation here at SimSports? It's simple, free and most of all allows you to compete in all the sports here.

Join the forum, it's quick and easy

SimSports
Why not login/register and join the conversation here at SimSports? It's simple, free and most of all allows you to compete in all the sports here.
SimSports
Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Where do you stand in the health care debate?

+4
Aranho
dljrfn2000
CraigKingOfIreland
Slacker
8 posters

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by CraigKingOfIreland Mon Aug 17, 2009 1:56 am

I don't think healthcare is something that can give a government more power, i believe the opposite in fact. In Ireland the health ministry has often been given to smaller parties in coalition governments, and hasn't done much to make them more powerful. In fact, health opens the government up to much criticism that could otherwise be blamed on somebody else, which is why in the past decade the (incompetent) Irish government has consistently pushed control of health onto the Health Service Executive, leaving our (obese) health minister to be able to say things aren't her fault. Healthcare is a burden to a politician's popularity, not something that gives them more power.
CraigKingOfIreland
CraigKingOfIreland
ISC Member
ISC Member

Number of posts : 580
Registration date : 2008-07-28
Age : 33
Location : Dublin, Ireland

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by Monegasque Mon Aug 17, 2009 2:32 am

my bad, i misread and thought you were talking about fascism Wink.
Monegasque
Monegasque
ISC Member
ISC Member

Number of posts : 372
Registration date : 2009-02-26
Location : Nice, France

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by dljrfn2000 Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:14 am

CraigKingOfIreland wrote:I don't think healthcare is something that can give a government more power, i believe the opposite in fact. In Ireland the health ministry has often been given to smaller parties in coalition governments, and hasn't done much to make them more powerful. In fact, health opens the government up to much criticism that could otherwise be blamed on somebody else, which is why in the past decade the (incompetent) Irish government has consistently pushed control of health onto the Health Service Executive, leaving our (obese) health minister to be able to say things aren't her fault. Healthcare is a burden to a politician's popularity, not something that gives them more power.


see in the US we don't have that system to throw power it would still be congress's bitch for lack of better terms and the government is already in a situation where they get blamed for every little thing that goes wrong even if they have no say in it. In the US the big issue with popularity of politicians is not what they do or do not do, as shown with Senator Dodd who had a 2% approval rating in May of 2009 ran an add campaign here in the state saying what a good guy he is and his numbers rebounded immediately to around 60%. The American Public is way to easily persuaded by the TV. So it's not going to hurt the government at an individual level all its going to hurt are, Middle Income and Higher Income taxes are going to sky rocket, other vital programs like defense are going to see cuts, and the bureaucracy will keep as many people from receiving treatment that do now with out health care. Giving it to the government isn't the answer. Perhaps instead of rushing into it they can attempt to levy sanctions and rules against these private companies so that the government isn't in direct control but will still make health care more accessible to the American People. This way I won't have to pay for someone elses health care on top of my own, more people will get health care so it is nearer to 100% coverage and the government stays out of it. Health care big wigs still get there cash flow and the investors still get there dues (which mind you it's far easier to be an investor than it is a politician in this country so it benefits more people to have the stock market good than the government)
dljrfn2000
dljrfn2000

Number of posts : 668
Registration date : 2008-07-16
Age : 32
Location : Danbury, CT

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by CraigKingOfIreland Mon Aug 17, 2009 3:24 am

Perhaps it might be an idea for the Americans to adopt the Dutch system. As I understand it, everybody pays the exact same level of health insurance. That way the insurance companies are still in control of the system but in order to compete with each other, they have to offer better services to their customers.
CraigKingOfIreland
CraigKingOfIreland
ISC Member
ISC Member

Number of posts : 580
Registration date : 2008-07-28
Age : 33
Location : Dublin, Ireland

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by dljrfn2000 Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:37 am

All the above does not matter.


Just read this on Yahoo.

President Obama plans to remove the government run health care option (which was hardly an option considering if you didn't take it you would've been taxed heavily) in favor of a bi-partisan compromise that will create a new private option set up on Government start up money but ultimately run privately from the government. Which is what I wanted, I declare temporary victory on this issue in the US.
dljrfn2000
dljrfn2000

Number of posts : 668
Registration date : 2008-07-16
Age : 32
Location : Danbury, CT

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by CraigKingOfIreland Mon Aug 17, 2009 4:48 am

dljrfn2000 wrote:All the above does not matter...I declare temporary victory on this issue in the US.

Just because that is what is being done, it doesn't mean it is right. The debate is still very much open, and probably always will be.
CraigKingOfIreland
CraigKingOfIreland
ISC Member
ISC Member

Number of posts : 580
Registration date : 2008-07-28
Age : 33
Location : Dublin, Ireland

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by canuck3360 Tue Aug 18, 2009 1:15 pm

dljrfn2000 wrote:Counter to your simple as,

why should I have to pay for someone who is out of work or not in a job's healthcare? Is that fair to me? Is that fair to my children (future), or grandchildren (future) who will be stuck with the multi billion dollar bill? Why should I who work hard and make a living have to pay for those who did not take advantage of life

ok here's my issue with that. When you get out on your own and work for a living you'll understand this more. I've worked my ass off for 12 years now and have only had health insurance for a total of 3 years of that 12 I work to pay my bills and it's no fault of my own that I don't get healthcare by the employer I also cannot afford to pay for insurance myself I am stradled with Rent,Taxes,Phone,TV,Gas,Truck,Truck insurance,Food,Electricity,Gas for heat and hot water,Cat food,student loan,any credit card bills and oh and any little leasures I may or may not want if I can afford them after all that I'm usually left with a whopping 20 bucks a month for whatever's left where in there do you see any room for insurance so don't say people who work hard get paid or get insurance cause I live in the worst economic situation in the country"Detroit/Michigan" almost every buisness here has cut healthcare benifits to save their asses.

so with that said If I get sick or hurt I'm fucked this is why I'm for a socialised healthcare system I have nothing against socialist policies and I think if you were in my situation you wouldn't be either.

also add to all the above I lost my job in June try pying for anything on a system where you struggle to get unemployment checks.

dljrfn2000 wrote:The way I see it, it's not fair to the millions of americans who have healthcare to have to pick up the slack on the millions who don't. It's not fair for them to have to pay for the rest of the country. If you work hard for your money just pay the government enough money to keep some one from coming in and blowing everything up (a military) other wise you should spend the money on what you want to, or need to spend it on.

hile it may not be fiar but mot taxpayers may not realise it they're already paying for thatkind of stuff-see food stamps and wellfare programs. and the rich should be paying higher taxes instead of us who make the poverty line or lower pay out our asses.
canuck3360
canuck3360
ISC Executive
ISC Executive

Number of posts : 3503
Registration date : 2008-02-26
Age : 44
Location : RV City,Rorysvile(Highlands,NJ USA)

http://www.sthockeyleague.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by Aranho Tue Aug 18, 2009 5:27 pm

the rich should be paying higher taxes instead of us who make the poverty line or lower pay out our asses.

I totally agree with this statement. The rich should get higher taxes. They may give reasons such as "We don't have enough money per month..." but why? Cuz they have to pay for maid fees, the extra unnecessary lessons, country club fees and other unimportant stuff like air-conditioning.

When the poor get taxed, it's alright for them to say "We don't have enough money per month..." cuz they only pay for food and perhaps utility bill. However, if such poor people are just slacking around, then they don't deserve to get lower taxes.
Aranho
Aranho
Former Simlympic Host

Number of posts : 1146
Registration date : 2008-10-18
Age : 30
Location : Singapore

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Aranho

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by dljrfn2000 Wed Aug 19, 2009 12:52 am

dljrfn2000 wrote:The way I see it, it's not fair to the millions of americans who have healthcare to have to pick up the slack on the millions who don't. It's not fair for them to have to pay for the rest of the country. If you work hard for your money just pay the government enough money to keep some one from coming in and blowing everything up (a military) other wise you should spend the money on what you want to, or need to spend it on.

hile it may not be fiar but mot taxpayers may not realise it they're already paying for thatkind of stuff-see food stamps and wellfare programs. and the rich should be paying higher taxes instead of us who make the poverty line or lower pay out our asses.[/quote]

Oh I realize that and I think wellfare is a heavily misused system that needs to be overhauled if not removed. Remember I live in a heavily Puerto Rican Immigrant part of the country. I see countless immigrants come in from Puerto Rico sit on there asses and do nothing all day collect there welfare check and still maintain better off than they would down on the island while sucking off the government like a parasite. I see them go into hospitals and use them like doctors offices while using medicare and medicaid. So when I (being disabled) have a real medical emergency I can't go in because some little rican has a stubbed toe and his mom has figured out that if I go to the ER instead of my doctors office I have to pay less of my minimum wage wellfare check. That will only increase dramatically with a universal health care system. Because now I'll have to contend with all of the idiots abusing the wellfare system and the ER up here instead of just those who have health insurance. So when I'm dead because of the abuse of the well fare system and because of the universal health-care system... talk to me then.
dljrfn2000
dljrfn2000

Number of posts : 668
Registration date : 2008-07-16
Age : 32
Location : Danbury, CT

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by canuck3360 Wed Aug 19, 2009 5:32 am

oh i will cause I'll likely have died before you since i can't afford healthcare in the first place and thanks to that I don't go to the doctors for anything i sliced my finger wide open needing stitched about a month or so ago and i didn't go instead I butterflied it(thank you us army first aid training) and hoped it'd heal it did but how well no one will ever know.

you have to realise the abuse will likely die down as the system will be tailored to help all. Thus the abusers are no longer abusing we need to overhaul the whole system of wellfare as well as healthcare. And anything life threatning will not = you waiting for care.
canuck3360
canuck3360
ISC Executive
ISC Executive

Number of posts : 3503
Registration date : 2008-02-26
Age : 44
Location : RV City,Rorysvile(Highlands,NJ USA)

http://www.sthockeyleague.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by CraigKingOfIreland Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:25 am

I think first a lot of American's have to get over the stigma of the word 'socialism'. The slightest mention of anything that benefits all equally and there are people being accused of being communists.
CraigKingOfIreland
CraigKingOfIreland
ISC Member
ISC Member

Number of posts : 580
Registration date : 2008-07-28
Age : 33
Location : Dublin, Ireland

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by canuck3360 Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:32 am

yeah it's kinda ingrained in our souls here.

the other issue that runs deep in american souls is taxation as it's one of the major causes for the Revolution(Taxation Without Representation)
canuck3360
canuck3360
ISC Executive
ISC Executive

Number of posts : 3503
Registration date : 2008-02-26
Age : 44
Location : RV City,Rorysvile(Highlands,NJ USA)

http://www.sthockeyleague.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by dljrfn2000 Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:42 am

canuck3360 wrote:
the other issue that runs deep in american souls is taxation as it's one of the major causes for the Revolution(Taxation Without Representation)

Exactly

It's one of the fundamental things our country was founded on..... like it would be like Libia (a country if memory serves set up for freed slaves) suddenly out-lawing Blacks.

The way I see it is, it's my money, I should be able to spend it how I want, and if you don't have the money for such luxuries than find a way to better your income. That's the great thing about america, about the free trade system there is always a way to make more money, if you are willing to work for it or find it and then execute what is needed (within the law) than you have that right to make more money and spend it as you please.
dljrfn2000
dljrfn2000

Number of posts : 668
Registration date : 2008-07-16
Age : 32
Location : Danbury, CT

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by canuck3360 Wed Aug 19, 2009 6:55 am

ummm easier said than done dljrfn I've been unemployed for 2 months now it aint so easy to make jobs or make your income better in this country these days.The days of no college and getting ahead are gone and those like me who chose to work after serving for our country are screwed as we didn't go to school and are now trapped


and thats fine oif you wnat to spend your money where you want but then don't complain when things like roads,transit,bridges, your house catches fire,gets robbed,etc....... cause what you pay for in taxes is far overweighed in what little more you'd pay to have healthcare I myself beleave in the Taxation with representation ideals but your being represented and taxes pay to make your life better why not actually make a life better.

Thats the most beautifull thing about this country is we can change and we achieve great changes and great things.

and as to willing to work I have been and have been trying for 2 months to get even a part time job with no luck even hit the fast food joints a place I swore I'd never work at as I think they're a cancer on our society and half the cause of the fattest nation.
canuck3360
canuck3360
ISC Executive
ISC Executive

Number of posts : 3503
Registration date : 2008-02-26
Age : 44
Location : RV City,Rorysvile(Highlands,NJ USA)

http://www.sthockeyleague.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by CraigKingOfIreland Wed Aug 19, 2009 7:34 am

Once again can I mention that a universal healthcare system doesn't make you less economically free; as shown here.
CraigKingOfIreland
CraigKingOfIreland
ISC Member
ISC Member

Number of posts : 580
Registration date : 2008-07-28
Age : 33
Location : Dublin, Ireland

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by Jcool663 Wed Aug 19, 2009 2:16 pm

That's the great thing about america, about the free trade system there is always a way to make more money, if you are willing to work for it or find it and then execute what is needed (within the law) than you have that right to make more money and spend it as you please.[/quote]

As you can see though... We as Americans lately have been losing jobs to that exact same principle. People like Canuck have lost there jobs and have no way of finding work even with all the desire and drive in the world. We have been shipping our own jobs to other country's behind that vale of money to be made ideal. which is why i dont like the whole "Free-Market" ideals entirely due to the fact that there is no public recourse except a boycott on that company's particular product... which if the company owns a monoploy on the thing it's PRETTY hard. At least with the government its run by the people for the people where the people that are at the top are elected by the people and if there not doing there job right the public can decided to ask them to resign (Hence why i'm for Elections Every Month to 3 Months instead of a long 4 years, 3 years or 2 years.) If your not your job, GTFO. Thats how i look at it.
Jcool663
Jcool663

Number of posts : 239
Registration date : 2008-03-01
Age : 30
Location : New Bedford, Mass

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by canuck3360 Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:50 pm

ok new argument for you dljrfn

so Insurance Companies are oh so great right? Try this out for size. My Mom was in a near fatal car wreck where she had a closed head injury,3 broken vertebrae,a broken pelvis,a broken collar bone,crushed ankle and hematoma's. She had also lost conciousness and was rushed to the hospital. After all the care was given her Insurance company decided to contest the injuries sustained in the accident as previous exsisting conditions trying to not pay for her work and hospital costs. After 2 years of fighting she still hadn't recieved insurance comensation and had gone into debt causing the loss of her house. She was also classified as permanantly disabled and unable to work as a result of the injuries. When all was said and done they eventually payed out a lesser ammount after court battles and she still lost her house.

So with that where in there is an Insurance Company any good? Can you tell me huh? Yeah great good they did us,Woulda been better off with a National Healthcare System.
canuck3360
canuck3360
ISC Executive
ISC Executive

Number of posts : 3503
Registration date : 2008-02-26
Age : 44
Location : RV City,Rorysvile(Highlands,NJ USA)

http://www.sthockeyleague.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by dljrfn2000 Fri Aug 21, 2009 12:58 pm

Jcool663 wrote:. At least with the government its run by the people for the people where the people that are at the top are elected by the people and if there not doing there job right the public can decided to ask them to resign

Read my statement about Chris Dodd and you'll know why I disagree with that statement completely.

Canuck: I'm not saying that the Insurance companies are good, I've had my battles with them too. But frankly.... the government run program would not put an end to stories just like that. It's a sad cruel practice yes, but to think that only the private companies would do that and the government wouldn't is just having a bad taste in your mouth from that experience.

My argument is not that Health Care should not be reformed, on the contrary I totally think it should... but the government should not be the ones running the show. And so far no one here has given me a strong argument to that.
dljrfn2000
dljrfn2000

Number of posts : 668
Registration date : 2008-07-16
Age : 32
Location : Danbury, CT

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by canuck3360 Sat Aug 22, 2009 10:29 am

oh a nice ending eh where my mom lost her house and the only reason for a pay out was legal pressure? Real EF'ing nice ending

here's where NHS wouldn't have hindered us. She woul have been able to get thecare without haing to deal with said insurance company(who are private entities blinded by greed. She also wouldn't have been tied down to her originalhospital which didn't have the best doctors and could have easily switched for better care without recourse from the insurance company.

Also Mike(slacker) had a great quote from S.Hawking where he was quoted as saying "If not for the NHS I'd be dead' so explain to mehow the NHS is such a bad thing all you can do is cite me as to your reason is Government shouldn't be in it and it's my money.........
canuck3360
canuck3360
ISC Executive
ISC Executive

Number of posts : 3503
Registration date : 2008-02-26
Age : 44
Location : RV City,Rorysvile(Highlands,NJ USA)

http://www.sthockeyleague.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by Jcool663 Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:57 am


My argument is not that Health Care should not be reformed, on the contrary I totally think it should... but the government should not be the ones running the show. And so far no one here has given me a strong argument to that.

Fine, lets not have a universal system. but a government run insurance plan like Massachusetts. where you buy into the system if you want. in this way it creates healthy competition between the insurance companies and lowers premiums for the consumer and the consumer wins out in the long run. And just for the record... The Govt Insurance option would be not be able to turn you down due to preconceived conditions. and it could not deny you coverage which all health insurance company's can do. and although your case for such coverage would be reviewed by a panel in the case of the govt... that already happens with insurance companys where they decide if you recieving such coverage would be a financially smart for them. i'm for UHC like the U.K. atm. but until the notions are removed im for a govt public option that people can buy into which in a capitalist society would bring healthy competition and better choice for the consumer
Jcool663
Jcool663

Number of posts : 239
Registration date : 2008-03-01
Age : 30
Location : New Bedford, Mass

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by Slacker Sat Sep 05, 2009 6:44 am

From an outsiders perspective I just find the entire notion of not having universal health care ridiculous.

Just because someone is poor shouldn't mean they're not allowed access to health care. It's absurd making anybody chose between health care and debt. Even more absurd is the fact that this is happening in one of the richest countries on the planet.

I watched a report on I think Newsnight about the US system. There was a story of a mother of three who had some disease (Can't remember what) and was dieing because she couldn't afford the drugs. She told her oldest son that she had little less than a month to live, he cries himself to sleep every night.

Is all of this really worth it? I think not.

A 5% income tax increase for everyone earning more than say $250k would probably be enough to fund Universal Health Care (Pulled figures outta my arse, but they point still stands). Can anyone honestly tell me they'd rather the richest of Americans have an extra $7000 each year over every American being given health care based on need not ability to pay?
Slacker
Slacker
ISC Executive
ISC Executive

Number of posts : 2998
Registration date : 2008-02-26

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by canuck3360 Sat Sep 05, 2009 8:16 am

Jcool the problem with that is not everyone can afford it so what good is it if u can't afford the system?
canuck3360
canuck3360
ISC Executive
ISC Executive

Number of posts : 3503
Registration date : 2008-02-26
Age : 44
Location : RV City,Rorysvile(Highlands,NJ USA)

http://www.sthockeyleague.webs.com

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by Jcool663 Sat Sep 05, 2009 4:31 pm

canuck3360 wrote:Jcool the problem with that is not everyone can afford it so what good is it if u can't afford the system?

Trust me. I want Universal Health for all Canuck. Thats what i would love to happen. but sadly your ganna get these capatalist jerk offs who are ganna try to stop it. so for the time being until people understand the need for UHC a public healthcare option is the second best thing. and to slacker... sadly, thats the reality. it really makes me question what im paying for on my taxes on my pay check and even worse... my U.S. citizenship
Jcool663
Jcool663

Number of posts : 239
Registration date : 2008-03-01
Age : 30
Location : New Bedford, Mass

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile

Back to top Go down

Where do you stand in the health care debate? - Page 2 Empty Re: Where do you stand in the health care debate?

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 2 of 2 Previous  1, 2

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum