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I'm out

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I'm out

Post by dljrfn2000 on Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:09 am

For some time now the SC4 community has been slowly slipping into more and more political behavior that resembles childish behavior you might find on the play ground rather than a community of people who work together to become better at a common game Sim City 4. Union life, and even the simlympic games which is supposed to be an un biased and unpolitical event has been warped and molded by the people in charge. The community which was once about working together to improve our skill on the game we all love playing has turned into a pathetic mirror of the real world filled with political sniping and a constant desire to do nothing but pat yourself on the back while often doing very little to benefit the community. Therefore,

SCI 2010 has been canceled.
Perthshire withdraws from all competitions
Perthshire withdraws from all union discussions and life

I will remain a member of Simtropolis and be moving my CJ when I get around to finishing Perthshire (which I should have more time to do now that I'm not dealing with the political BS that goes on here) to that site so watch for that to pop up there.

I will return if the community as a whole stops spending there time playing politics games and actually starts working to be a better community for the game. I realize that the avg. age of most members is in the mid teens but honestly this place is run more times than not like the avg. age is in the high single digits. The ISC needs to seriously check themselves as a whole I think before the simlympic games will ever return to what it once was and if you have any questions or wish to discuss my frustrations or any other reasons as to why I left you may contact me either on Simtropolis or at my YIM acount Delconjr.

-Thank you
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Re: I'm out

Post by Guest on Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:56 am

Ah well that sucks? Have fun away from SC

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Re: I'm out

Post by Joe 90 on Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:57 pm

I presume this is a result of the recent friction between the SCJU and AIN, and the perceived 'domination' of the ISC by one or other union. A quick check of the ISC reveals that six out of ten current members are not affiliated with any active union, two are with SCJU, one with AIN, and one I'm not sure about, so your claim of overt union bias is unfounded. The ISC aims to be as unbiased as possible, to the point that new members are read the riot act before they even get properly let in. Any evidence of bias would be dealt with harshly because that is not the way we work. So far, despite what you say, the ISC has been successful at this, and is probably the only place where members of different unions actually do work together well.

If, instead, this is a whinge because SCJU members have held the last two games then I have no sympathy for you. The best bid will be accepted, period. I don't care which union the best bid comes from and I'm sure the rest of the ISC don't either. We have over 100 nations competing in the Simlympics, so winning hosting rights is not going to be a walk in the park. If your bid is not the best, you must improve. End of Story.



On a personal note, I really dislike the petty attitude of unions (yes, all of them, to some extent) and as such you will not see me join one. I can't be bothered with anyone pushing an agenda and I will stomp on people if they try to pervert our purpose and goals. In my humble opinion (and not the ISC's) AIN has been throwing its weight around far too much lately, and when met with a group that resisted their influence, they have attempted to undermine them instead. So before you go muckraking and accusing people of being too political, I'd have a look at the actions of your own union. I'm not trying to tar all AIN members with the same brush, because by and large they are perfectly reasonable people, but it does seem odd that we all seemed to get along fine until AIN popped up.

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Re: I'm out

Post by Kumba on Tue Mar 09, 2010 12:59 pm

dljrfn2000 wrote: Union life, and even the simlympic games which is supposed to be an un biased and unpolitical event has been warped and molded by the people in charge.

Maybe if u man up to the challenge of facing some high profile bidders instead of whining that they're planning to bid when you're bidding then you would do fine.

The ISC in no way is biased, its all in your head I'm afraid.

Therefore,

SCI 2010 has been canceled.
Perthshire withdraws from all competitions
Perthshire withdraws from all union discussions and life

SCI? Thats the biggest embarrasment of SS, you rigged the contest so you could come from behind and win it and look as the hero. SCI, where you decide who gets how much points. What a joke. Good thing its leaving.

Good thing your immaturity is leaving as well, SS is once again a happy place.

to that site so watch for that to pop up there.

Any site which basically copies SS in any form will not be advertised here, sorry.

I realize that the avg. age of most members is in the mid teens but honestly this place is run more times than not like the avg. age is in the high single digits. The ISC needs to seriously check themselves as a whole I think before the simlympic games will ever return to what it once
-Thank you

Most members act their age, you don't. You're a married guy who acts like he's 13 its embarrasing. I would never ever act how you do and I'm older than you. Kind of sad really.

You're the one who needs a check, the ISC doesn't

You proably posted this so you could have attention and have people ask you to say no, please stay! Well not happening, have a good life but I'm sure you'll return anyways. If you don't, take the time to grow up and learn how to act like a adult.
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Re: I'm out

Post by Matt on Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:45 pm

Although I'm not personally involved in this, I'd like to apologize for all the comments that were made, on behalf of the AIN. SimSports is the birthplace of our union plus we're still participating and aiming to host the Simlympics, so it's better not to raise any conflicts.
Once again, sorry for everthing.
Matt
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Re: I'm out

Post by Guest on Wed Mar 10, 2010 9:36 am

Matt wrote:Although I'm not personally involved in this, I'd like to apologize for all the comments that were made, on behalf of the AIN. SimSports is the birthplace of our union plus we're still participating and aiming to host the Simlympics, so it's better not to raise any conflicts.
Once again, sorry for everthing.
Matt

Agreed. SS is the birth place of AIN. And AIN members do think of this as a good thing. Yes we will still compete in the Simlympics. Never planned on leaving Smile Tho the SCS ad may have themed that way but, the World Games idea was delcons. And was added cause SCS site leaders didn't mind being its home. As for the SCS Site. It had no plans to ever advertise on this site. Thats just wrong. SCS hopes it can work along with SS and provide a great expierance for SC4 members by offering leagues that both of us might not have. We ask members of SCS and SS to post on both sites. As SCS has no intent of stealing SS posts. And if both sites share leagues we did mention to the hosts of those leagues to post at SCS, and SS both. So hopefully this caused no conflict. And both sites can work together in peace and help provide the best atmosphere for our great loyal members

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Re: I'm out

Post by Neil on Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:01 am

I am looking foward to being active and contributing on both sites. Smile
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Re: I'm out

Post by Blakeway on Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:10 am

Sad. Good luck! Well I agree with Matt.

to Kumba, I think you release yourself Razz for the age thing, hmm OK.

The 'conflict' between AIN and SCJU is done and finish. No comments.

For a personal note: I like SS Smile
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Re: I'm out

Post by Slacker on Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:15 am

To quote our official line regarding union impartiality:

1) All ISC members must remain impartial at all times, we are a neutral organisation. Like Switzerland.
2) The ISC is not against union membership, unless it interferes with your responsibilities as a committee member; in which case your membership of the ISC will be terminated.
3) 'Interferes' is defined as: Allowing your union membership to influence your actions as an ISC member negatively, allowing union membership to influence your voting decisions or allowing union rivalries to influence your impartiality as an ISC member.

I take impartiality very seriously, we have a zero tolerance policy on any breaches; we will have to terminate (Arnie style) your ISC membership.

This is at the top of the ISC Section. Front and centre. For over three years we've been an apolitical organisation, this isn't changing and never well.

If any one still has further concerns then my PM box is always open Smile.
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Re: I'm out

Post by JJ1 on Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:58 pm

I can't sit and listen to this anymore. I'm sick of everyone bad mouthing everyone. We are forgetting one thing.... THIS IS A GAME! We are not negotiating world peace or hunger. What we all need to do is just grow up and play nice with each other. Maybe the whole "union" idea is a bad one. It may promote nepotism on the subconsious level. It may form "cliques". I didn't join AIN to get involved in any politics, unless it is directly related to my ficticious country of Ascadylea. Maybe we need some changes.
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Re: I'm out

Post by danspaceman on Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:07 pm

I don't think unions are a bad idea per se, but there are some people who give not only their union, but all unions a bad rap.

I think unions give people an opportunity to roleplay on a deeper level and relate to other people who love the game as much as they do. The reason there are so many unions is because only one union would simply be too big. It would defeat the purpose.

The unions work and on the whole there is a great deal of respect between them and within them. However, occasionally there will be people who just don't get along. Sometimes they are in the same union, sometimes they are in different unions. When the latter happens it can be tempting to call it an inter-union dispute, when it is in fact simply a dispute between two people, not two groups of people.

It all works fine, provided people remember that we're all in it for the love of the game. We already have common ground in that respect. What everyone need to do is maintain a certain level of etiquette.

This whole situation is unfortunate, but it should not spell the end of the unions as I think they are a valuable part of the experience - just as long as we remember that even though the things we do and the things we talk about are fictitious, the people doing and talking are real.
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Re: I'm out

Post by JJ1 on Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:23 pm

very well put
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Re: I'm out

Post by Blakeway on Thu Mar 11, 2010 9:30 am

Yup, I agree. Normally I don't like to beeing moralised, but now you got me. Idea
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Re: I'm out

Post by CraigKingOfIreland on Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:02 am

dljrfn2000: While I'd like to get into what could be perceived as personal attacks, I'll try not to. I think the only interaction I've ever had with you was in the healthcare debate thread, and I wasn't impressed. I have since seen you as a person who's opinion I just can't take seriously. What you are doing here is just making you out to be a sad person, and you won't (certainly by me in anyway) be missed. (:

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Re: I'm out

Post by Sixu on Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:20 pm

I cannot even believe the SCJU was even mentioned here (as in used as some sort of bargaining chip). The SCJU has actively and staunchly avoided all non-union political organisations for almost two years now, because it just breeds contempt amongst some.

Thankyou Joe90 for basically holding the same view that I do, that the simlympics have always been an independent and impartial entity, without bias of any sort. I believe there was a time not too long ago that the SCJU perhaps had a significantly disproportionate presence within the committee in comparison to "rival" unions. Yet, the SCJU community not once made any issue with the simlympics because we are as a community more than happy with the status quo and am perfectly content in the resolve that the S.C will remain impartial and unbiased, as you always have.

This entire charade originated and ended on the AIN forums here:
http://aoin.darkbb.com/random-topics-f4/wow-didn-t-know-that-max-is-no-longer-a-ain-member-sad-thread-closed-no-more-comments-please-t1735-15.htm#14258

Which we questioned here:
http://12colonies.net/index.php?option=com_kunena&Itemid=2&func=view&catid=42&id=28699&limit=30&limitstart=30#28792

Is it so difficult to mind your own affairs, without dragging peoples reputations or entire unions through the dirt?

My only regret is that once again another forum has had to deal with yet another union-group with SCJU-Paranoia, which is as evidently clear, completely unfounded.
I trust the Simlympic staff feel likewise.
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Re: I'm out

Post by mayorm on Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:44 pm

Well i'm sad to see you leave this site. I wish you luck dljrfn2000.

As to everyone else, let me just say I'm not sure why, but there has been a decrease in the community aspect of all SC4 sites, I for one would like to see that community feel come back to all SC4 sites. There has also been a few political matters I've seen as well... between different users, unions, other sites, ect. We are all part of a community on this site and all sites we belong to, and all the sc sites are a community which we are all a part of. If people are having problems with another member, site, whatever they should take it up privately with whoever they are having problems with. I think as a community we can have that family feel again. Now i will stop typing this post b/c even I don't know what i'm talking about now. lol
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Re: I'm out

Post by Melbourne on Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:47 pm

CraigKingOfIreland wrote:dljrfn2000: While I'd like to get into what could be perceived as personal attacks, I'll try not to. I think the only interaction I've ever had with you was in the healthcare debate thread, and I wasn't impressed. I have since seen you as a person who's opinion I just can't take seriously. What you are doing here is just making you out to be a sad person, and you won't (certainly by me in anyway) be missed. (:

Couldn't agree with you more Craig,in all my dealings youh ave been quite the unpleasant one and couldn't even handle constructive criticism. So hopefully you take this time out to mature a bit. I'm not going to miss you.
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Re: I'm out

Post by TylerD30 on Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:08 pm

joe, Delcon isn't in AIN..... and Kumba, the stuff that you said is making you look like a child....
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Re: I'm out

Post by cormiermax on Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:13 pm

someone should lock this thread, I feel a big argument coming...

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Re: I'm out

Post by Blakeway on Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:17 pm

Agree with Max. Smile But it would be nice to see the argumentation!
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Re: I'm out

Post by mayorm on Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:39 pm

agreed
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Re: I'm out

Post by Guest on Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:40 pm

Though tyler is kind of right. We should lock this

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Re: I'm out

Post by dljrfn2000 on Sat Mar 13, 2010 2:50 pm

1. This has absolutely nothing to do with the AIN SCJU tensions I am not a currently a member of the AIN.... haven't been for a while

2. Craig & Melborne you were never personally attacked or even a thought process in this. I'm sorry you guys felt that the fact I disagree with your view points on the healthcare debate meant that I was unable to receive criticism... I just chose not to change my view point on something... I have no issue with you at all. I respect your difference in my opinion on that issue, and I think you're two great SC4 players.

3. Kumba I'm not yet married, engaged yes... but we don't intend on getting married until after we're finished with school in another 2 years.

4. My intention of this post was not to get 'oooo don't go' no it was... as the post says I'm out, and I wish to be out... I just came back to clear up some assumptions made by people but my intention is to no longer be a member of unions, the simlympics, or other sports leagues.

5. On a slightly unrelated note Slacker nice to see you back, I like what you said in your post directly after I posted this and I look forward to seeing you fulfill your lofty goal of the best games ever.

6. I have no issue with the SCJU personally, I do think there cities are a bit, similar and a little bland in terms of originality, I feel they all look the same and all have the same European look to them, but I find them incredible and the union as a whole to be the most realistic and beautiful unions in the community. In-fact.... after leaving the AIN I had thought about joining the SCJU and had discussed the possibility of joining. So I have no idea where this "I'm against the SCJU thing is coming from"

7. I will say the goal of the World Games Committee was to discus first drafting a letter to the ISC from a few members who had felt that the ISC was sortta falling short and things we wanted to see possibly happen in the near future and make some suggestions. It was something that was supposed to be left a secret but was not for numerous reasons and those involved and I have spoken and chosen to break ties with each other and that is ok that is our personal deal and is by no means an issue of this community. So to answer Joe... I had taken part in it, but unlike what Kumba had suggested it was not at the time meant to be a 'copy of the simlympics' but first a letter of worries a few members had and then other thoughts that we could help the simlympics and then as an absolute last resort look at the prospect of starting a new games.

8. The reason I canceled my bids were because I was frankly not sure of my involvement in the simlympics any more. It had absolutely nothing to do with other bids. And the bids in the past I had canceled were due to RL issues, many times I under estimated the time it would take me to finish work on Perthshire to get it ready for the bid. It had nothing to do with any other bids and I felt had I been inclined to stay I would have posted a very formidable bid. So... again no idea where those assumptions came from.

9. Again on an unrelated, but personal note.... went to see alice in wonderland last night.... Jabawokees Peter? Razz

The fact of the mater is, there are certain people I have problems with, they know very well who they are. But my issue is simply this.... the SC4 community has become too much about politics, too much about gaining power within the ISC, within Unions... and almost nothing about... playing SC4. I think that's wrong and I no longer wish to be a part of it.

Again... I invite any of you to discuss this with me on my YIM acount, Delconjr@yahoo.com or my simtropolis account which is also Dljrfn2000. And to be posting responses here calling me immature is not very mature yourself, I'd respect you much more to discuss this with me personally.

-Dljrfn2000

PS: If you wish to lock this that is your decision... but I'd advise leaving it open... see what peoples intentions really are.... if they continue to jump to assumptions, or continue to blast me here... then that proves that they're not much more mature than they are claiming I am. Maybe you guys will learn a thing or two about the people here and it may just prove my point in some places. But... its upto you guys hope this post cleared up some assumptions
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Re: I'm out

Post by Slacker on Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:26 pm

As i've said before, union bickering and petty arguments have no place here.

Locked. Will be deleted within 24 hours Smile.
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Re: I'm out

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