The SimSports Politics Thread

[Slacker]

Here's a subject which hasn't been discussed much here; politics .
In this thread, I'll post a political issue which everyone can debate/discuss and then once it kinda dies I'll post up a new issue.

So... lets start with... socialised health care:

Should it be the Government's job to provide health care for the people, or should health care be provided privately?

[Neil]

Yes and the NHS should be further expanded to include dental care again!
I know lots of countries have to pay (like down south you have to pay for an ambulance) and I believe this is wrong, yes you should go private if you don't want to be on a waiting list but people who are not in a very good financial state should not have to suffer or even die if they cant afford the treatment.

[Mr_Sim]

Yes and the NHS should be further expanded to include dental care again!
I know lots of countries have to pay (like down south you have to pay for an ambulance) and I believe this is wrong, yes you should go private if you don't want to be on a waiting list but people who are not in a very good financial state should not have to suffer or even die if they cant afford the treatment.

Precisely. Why should someone suffer because they are poor?

I feel the government have a resposibility to cater for the public's basic needs. Healthcare being one of them.

[dljrfn2000]

I come to you from the Insurance capital of the world Hartford CT. NHS would destroy the issuance industry in Hartford and be a crippling blow to the economy in central CT. You have to remember while NHS helps millions with out health care it ruins a lot of jobs and in today's economy we have no room for error. Maybe in time when the economy recovers but right now it would be a dangerous deal on a personal level.

[Slacker]

I'm in the same line of view as Mr Sim and Norn Iron. Your healthcare is a basic human right, no-one should be forced to pay for an operation that may save their life - what if they can't pay? They just die?

I also agree the NHS should be expanded, free dental care for all and free prescriptions too.

Dljfrn: You make a good point, but the NHS is one of the biggest employees in the world. I think it's 3rd behind the Chinese army and WalMart! Its win-win, lots of jobs are created and it saves peoples lives.

[Mr_Sim]

Dljfrn: You make a good point, but the NHS is one of the biggest employees in the world. I think it's 3rd behind the Chinese army and WalMart! Its win-win, lots of jobs are created and it saves peoples lives.

I never even thought of that. I can only imagine the total number of jobs there are in the NHS. Coming to think of it, i actually know quite a few people who work for the NHS...

[canuck3360]

and here we come from the aspect of the poor and with no insurance

I'd love to be able to get help with my health right now as it stands if I break a leg and have to go to the hospital it'll bankrupt me I don't make enough to pay for insurance and I mae too much to qualify for medicade.And Dj think of what I've been witnessing firsthand here in Detroit funny how the rest of teh country thought oh who cares about the auto industry. well here it's directly tied to every single place in the city for examle my job as an Arena Supervisor now I can count in my building on a nightly basis 65% of my customers are directly employed by the auto industry the other 35% are indirectly employed now if someone loses their job are they able to afford things like Hockey and Ice time? NOPE so there goes that body on the team and as the team loses enough players they aren't going to be able to afford their ice and then boom there goes a team that was paying for icetime trickle down effect will cause my loss of a job.

ok back to healthcare sorry got off on a tangent.If and when I had healthcare I didn't visit the doctor a whole lot but at least I knew I could,as opposed to now I don't go to the doctors/dentist for anything and likely won't cause it'll cost me more than I have.Not to mention the Insurance companies like to weasel their way outta paying for things my mom was in a near fatal accident 3 years ago and all the insurance did was find ways of not paying for her needed surgeries,medication etc....

[Neil]

I also believe that the NHs should be expanded to inclde free dental care. as it stands if i leave school next year I have to pay even for a check-up.

[dljrfn2000]

but see the thing is we all end up paying for it in the end, it all goes into our taxes and with the budget crisis we have now you think that taxes would be level or go down if we now had to pay for everyone's health care?

[Slacker]

You could use the same argument against police and firefighters. Taxes could be lowered if we didn't have to pay for everyones safety? But sometimes there are things which are needed, IMO, police, firefighters, healthcare are just a selection of examples which I'm more than happy to pay my tax £s for.

[dljrfn2000]

Not necessarily, I know in my town Fire is all volunteer, even the ambulance company is private.Pluss this is on a town or city wide level everything like that goes south on a national level. Tell me if this makes sense to you,

You have a good paying job, you worked hard to get it, graduated college, work hard in your job and you have earned enough money where you have enough to pay for health insurance. All of a sudden NHS comes into play... now you not only have to pay for your healthcare but that guy who slacked off and dropped out of high school. Is that fair? You work your rear off only to now have to pay for someone who didn't?

What's your motivation? If I sit on my rear and do just enough to get a pay check, with a lower tax for lower income residence I can get by just as well as if I worked my but off and guess what if I get hurt I still get health care, I still get dental. I understand that there are situations where people get laid off from work then they have something bad happen and they get screwed with a huge bill, but that's more the exception than the rule and it's just not fair to someone who can afford healthcare that would now have to pay for someone who couldn't not because of a bad situation but because they know how to play the system.

[canuck3360]

ok well heres the counter to that

am did not slack off I Went and served to protect your ass and came out of the military and have been working my ass off for jobs that pay me somewhat well I'm in debt and am struggling just to make a house payment let alone car,phone,food,electricity how fair is it for me to then have to pay for healthcare(which I can't afford) basically If I get sick I'm fucked. Now those lazy asses you refer to already leach off the tax payers tit something called wellfare,medicade food stamps? so your already paying for that.

trust me things seem so much rosier and better(this is not meant as a slam at you) when your at your age and haven't had to make it on your own. when the real world hits you in the ass it hits with a force that is unforgiving.I grew up with parents who worked hard just to make ends meet and provide a life for me and my brother.I learned what eviction notices and all the fun that goes with it at a young age.

so I guess what I'm saying is don't group everyone who has no healthcare as LAZY.I am far from it in fact I bet I work 5 times harder than that a-hole who had his way payed for through college.

[Orchid22]

AMEN CANUCK!!

I've been on my own since 17, working two jobs {bartender and secretary}, paying my own way through college, and paying car note, rent, food, utilities, etc. Both of my jobs cut back benefits in October of last year, and since then, I have been an AirBorne junkie. I can't afford to miss work. The only one in my house that has insurance is Tucker, but his is a lot cheaper than health insurance for me. I hate the fact that I'm breaking even and yet my taxes are going to help lazy retards with food stamps/medicaid/etc. Its sickening. I mean, hello, I'm the proactive citizen in society, help me out!

I would love to be 14-15 again. No bills, no insurance worries, no nothing. But I can only keep my head up and try to stay positive.

{BTW, A special thank you to canuck for serving in the military }

[Slacker]

Dljfrn: See, I think it's a myth that having a public health system is more expensive.

Here are the national insurance rates for the UK. It's pretty complex, but I think the average person is paying £2.30 a week - which works out at £119.60. Thats $167.54. With that you're covered for everything, whether you break a leg, need heart surgery. Now tell me, how much would an insurance plan which protects you against everything cost in the US? My bet is that it'll be in the thousands.

Whenever I hear the anti-socialist argument that people who are poor just haven't worked as hard, or dropped out of school early... it just doesn't fit to me. Wealth isn't so black and white. There's so many other factors that contribute to it, unfortunately working hard doesn't mean you're going to be successful.

What about the kid who has a millionaire father and won't need to work for the rest of his life, he'll just inherit his fathers wealth. He's rich, but has he worked hard? Nope.

But what about the kid living in a rough area, the schools are terrible there so he can't get a good education and his family can't afford to move anywhere else because poverty is like a black hole, once you're stuck there it's terribly hard to get out - it's a downward spiral. Just suppose his father had slacked off during his childhood, and thats the reason he hasn't got a good job and doesn't live in a good area. Should that child be doomed because of his father? I believe in a society where everyone has equal opportunity to health care, schools and opportunity, no matter what their background is.

[Slacker]

Okay, seeing as this topic seems to have died a death, here's a new one:

The death penalty.

Should a civilised country execute its own citizens?

[canuck3360]

hmmmmmm I have mixed feelings on this I'll have to sit and stew a bit

[Slacker]

My feelings:

No, a very stern no - for a few main reasons.

1) Mistakes happen. No matter how perfect the evidence may be, or how certain the conviction is - you can never be 100% certain. Once someone is dead, they're dead. If there's any chance at all that an innocent man could be executed, it just doesn't bare thinking about...

2) I'm of the belief that life imprisonment is far worse than execution. Once someone is dead, how can they 'suffer'? They can't. Instead it's their families that are forced to suffer.

3) Contrary to popular belief, executing someone actually costs more (at least in the US) than it does to keep someone imprisoned for life. Due to all the appeals which have to be listened to and the lengthy trials.

An eye for an eye makes the whole World blind.

[dljrfn2000]

A mixed feelings on this, there are certain people in this world that are way too dangerous to be kept alive, people can escape jail and keeping them in prison for life takes a strain on an already near maxed out prison system. I think only for the most serious offenses, serial killers, someone who commits multiple child rapes, of that nature should be subject to capital punishment.

But I understand it must be kept in check, not only can the government not get ahead of themselves nor can the people. As I mentioned before I live in CT and a few years ago we had a vicious home invasion, rape and murder of 2 teen girls and there mother by two men who had gotten out on parole. People were so angry that the two men had to be closely guarded within the prison, prisoners were so disgusted with there crimes that they were threatening to kill them if the guards turned there back.

So why yes some people I think are simply too dangerous to be kept alive for the well being of the people in it's very hard to keep people underconrtol and keep it in check so that people who probably could be kept alive don't get victimized.

[Peter]

I will have to say no. I don't believe in killing. Just like Slacker said, the only way for them to suffer is to be kept alive, not dead. I think their conscience will torture them enough. But if someone really close to me died, I can see why people would beg for the suspect to die. I would just beg for medieval tortures to be revisited again jk jk jk

[Neil]

I do not believe in the death penalty. Even murderers should not recieve this.
Some may say the bible teaches 'an eye for an eye' but even though one of theten commandments is 'Thou shalt not murder'.
What happens if someone is wrongly convicted? In the UK they go to prison - they serve their time - then take it up themselves with the high court or further up (alive). If the same incident happens in a country/state with the death penalty then waht happens? They are killed - the family already traumatised by the conviction and the possible thought their family member is a murderer, have now got to deal with the grief of losing their loved one. Imagine the horror of the family, police and even the jury when a criminal admits to a crime that someone was 'murdered' for.

[Slacker]

I've let this die a bit haven't I? Oops .

Ok, new topic... quite topical:

Should anyone be able to walk into a shop and buy a gun?

[canuck3360]

I like the 5 day waiting period that we have in place here personally some backround checks need to be done as well as maybe some psychological tests as well that way it can be tracked I also feel the issue isn't Guns but Bulletts need to be cataloged as it is you can buy bullets with no records or nothing

[Slacker]

Sorry, I didn't word it very well. I didn't mean specifically being able to work into a shop and buy a gun, I meant should anyone have the right to buy a gun?

[dljrfn2000]

no, there are some people, Ie. illegal imagrents, convicted felons, or legally insane people who should not be allowed to own a gun. Also no one under the age of 16 in general and none under 18 without parental consent, and they can only use it for hunting purposes (or sport shooting) I think the same should be said for archery equipment, while not as dangerous as a gun still it poses some risk.

[Slacker]

This video angers me considerably, for a number of reasons:

1) He's attacking the NHS
2) He's on Fox News
3) The Fox News guy cites the Daily Mail (Which supported Hitler during WW2).
4) This guy is actually one of South East Englands (My region) representatives at the European Parliament.
5) He's spewing the bullshit that socialiased health care doesn't work
6) Did he really say the NHS has made the country iller? Is he actually insane? He believes that the health of people in the UK has got worse since 1948... wow
7) That guy from Fox News REALLY pisses me off.

Grrrrrrrr

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